The fourth debate is in the books. Tonight presented a far better format, with far more intramural clash, than in any of the predecessor events. Huckabee stole the show tonight, with Rudy close on his heals and McCain rebounding hard. I still don’t know why we have moderators at all. Shouldn’t someone who wants to be President of the United States be able to stand his ground on a stage with his competitors without any direction or editing?
As usual. we’re going to rate each debater on a scale of 1-30. The ratings are based in part on presentation, part on content and part on the stage management of the occasion. In alphabetical order:
Sam Brownback Sam seemed very off his game tonight. Sam started the debate series with a great performance in the first debate but has consistently been kind of a wall flower in the last three debates. Sam had a couple of great answers but was unable to produce a dominant posture on even his strongest answers about family and homosexual marriage; while again tremendously articulate he didn’t generate a powerful presence. Sam is a complex legal thinker but he has not demonstrated the ability to exploit the debate format.
1st debate/25
As usual. we’re going to rate each debater on a scale of 1-30. The ratings are based in part on presentation, part on content and part on the stage management of the occasion. In alphabetical order:
Sam Brownback Sam seemed very off his game tonight. Sam started the debate series with a great performance in the first debate but has consistently been kind of a wall flower in the last three debates. Sam had a couple of great answers but was unable to produce a dominant posture on even his strongest answers about family and homosexual marriage; while again tremendously articulate he didn’t generate a powerful presence. Sam is a complex legal thinker but he has not demonstrated the ability to exploit the debate format.
1st debate/25
2nd debate/21
3rd debate/22
4th debate/20
Rudy Giuliani. Rudy was great tonight. His answers are almost entirely direct. He minimized damage on his weaknesses-like his utterly chaotic family life-by giving the smart argument. Rudy repeatedly targeted the Democrats and, more importantly, seemed like a tough and competent, if somewhat strangely idiosyncratic, leader. His shot at Fred was great to start. His answer on Guantanamo was also killer, fact based, much like a President in the making telling people what they need but wish not to hear. Giuliani always comes back to competence and measurable results; two very reassuring traits to the average voter.
1st debate/21
Rudy Giuliani. Rudy was great tonight. His answers are almost entirely direct. He minimized damage on his weaknesses-like his utterly chaotic family life-by giving the smart argument. Rudy repeatedly targeted the Democrats and, more importantly, seemed like a tough and competent, if somewhat strangely idiosyncratic, leader. His shot at Fred was great to start. His answer on Guantanamo was also killer, fact based, much like a President in the making telling people what they need but wish not to hear. Giuliani always comes back to competence and measurable results; two very reassuring traits to the average voter.
1st debate/21
2nd debate/27
3rd debate/27
4th debate/28
Mike Huckabee. Huck just keeps getting better. Tonight he really started to step out from behind the “social conservative” template. While Ron Paul is an easy target, Huck’s smack down made him look tough-and a lack of toughness was one of the worst knocks on Huck. He defended the Fair Tax well and talked tough on foreign policy. He also showed the ability to dodge questions and stay on message without seeming to have just ducked the question entirely.
Mike Huckabee. Huck just keeps getting better. Tonight he really started to step out from behind the “social conservative” template. While Ron Paul is an easy target, Huck’s smack down made him look tough-and a lack of toughness was one of the worst knocks on Huck. He defended the Fair Tax well and talked tough on foreign policy. He also showed the ability to dodge questions and stay on message without seeming to have just ducked the question entirely.
1st debate/25
2nd debate/27
3rd debate/28
4th debate/29
Duncan Hunter. He smiled broadly for the first time. Keep it up Duncan-it looks good. I have said it before-Duncan Hunter just seems like he should be the Commander in Chief. I almost completely agree with every word he utters. He also showed a very clear vision for the world tonight. Unfortunately, he has the reverse problem from Sam and, previously, Huck-he only gets foreign policy questions. Let’s be honest-you just know that he would blow those Iranian monsters back into the stone age!
1st debate/23
Duncan Hunter. He smiled broadly for the first time. Keep it up Duncan-it looks good. I have said it before-Duncan Hunter just seems like he should be the Commander in Chief. I almost completely agree with every word he utters. He also showed a very clear vision for the world tonight. Unfortunately, he has the reverse problem from Sam and, previously, Huck-he only gets foreign policy questions. Let’s be honest-you just know that he would blow those Iranian monsters back into the stone age!
1st debate/23
2nd debate/24
3rd debate/25
4th debate/27
John McCain. Sen. McCain started out slow, old and over rehearsed; getting to speak last on his own ground allowed him to end passionate, serious and wise. John’s somewhat undeserved slap down on Mitt over the word “apparent” made Sen. McCain look resolute and committed. He is the only guy other than Tancredo who really talks about the big war and the need for strength, and the consequences of appearing weak. The Senator’s answer on taxes reminded me of his opposition of the President’s tax cuts-back when he was running for the Non-Party Party nomination. Actually, it reminded me of the personal nature of his fights with W. None the less, a huge debate improvement for the Senator tonight, both on style and substance.
1st debate/23
John McCain. Sen. McCain started out slow, old and over rehearsed; getting to speak last on his own ground allowed him to end passionate, serious and wise. John’s somewhat undeserved slap down on Mitt over the word “apparent” made Sen. McCain look resolute and committed. He is the only guy other than Tancredo who really talks about the big war and the need for strength, and the consequences of appearing weak. The Senator’s answer on taxes reminded me of his opposition of the President’s tax cuts-back when he was running for the Non-Party Party nomination. Actually, it reminded me of the personal nature of his fights with W. None the less, a huge debate improvement for the Senator tonight, both on style and substance.
1st debate/23
2nd debate/24
3rd debate/ 24
4th debate/ 27
Ron Paul. How maddening. The libertarian in me screams yes on so much of what he says. Then the pragmatist returns to the real world. Rudy pounded at him in the first debate, Huck used him as foil with brilliance tonight. You never want the most memorable moment of one on these things to be on the other guy’s highlight film. But he was more theatrical (compliment), and he made better arguments for his sometimes simply unsupportable positions than he has in the past events.
1st debate/21
Ron Paul. How maddening. The libertarian in me screams yes on so much of what he says. Then the pragmatist returns to the real world. Rudy pounded at him in the first debate, Huck used him as foil with brilliance tonight. You never want the most memorable moment of one on these things to be on the other guy’s highlight film. But he was more theatrical (compliment), and he made better arguments for his sometimes simply unsupportable positions than he has in the past events.
1st debate/21
2nd debate/20
3rd debate/21
4th debate/26
Mitt Romney. This was Mitt’s weakest outing, mostly because he was the target tonight. His answers seemed nuanced far too often, which just feeds the flip-flop image. When you’re one of the clear front runners, a status I believe Mitt now occupies, even a little mistake like using the word “apparent” to describe the Surge’s success can be exploited. Much attention was paid to Mitt’s issue evolution and his defenses seemed somewhat, insincere. Mitt remained calm and didn’t get rattled. He does handle the misstatement about his boys’ service quite well, it was a misstatement that just did not come out right. Isn’t it time to give the guy a break and move off this non issue?
1st debate/25
Mitt Romney. This was Mitt’s weakest outing, mostly because he was the target tonight. His answers seemed nuanced far too often, which just feeds the flip-flop image. When you’re one of the clear front runners, a status I believe Mitt now occupies, even a little mistake like using the word “apparent” to describe the Surge’s success can be exploited. Much attention was paid to Mitt’s issue evolution and his defenses seemed somewhat, insincere. Mitt remained calm and didn’t get rattled. He does handle the misstatement about his boys’ service quite well, it was a misstatement that just did not come out right. Isn’t it time to give the guy a break and move off this non issue?
1st debate/25
2nd debate/24
3rd debate/27
4th debate/ 24
Tom Tancredo. He is just so sincere and real. The Tanc had the tonic but lacked stage presence. His response on Iraq was somewhat incoherent. However, the Tanc’s attack on global jihad and the extent to which we are being suicidal with this political correctness were, as usual, great.
1st debate/21
Tom Tancredo. He is just so sincere and real. The Tanc had the tonic but lacked stage presence. His response on Iraq was somewhat incoherent. However, the Tanc’s attack on global jihad and the extent to which we are being suicidal with this political correctness were, as usual, great.
1st debate/21
2nd debate/22
3rd debate/24
4th debate/ 23
The ratings neither reflect my personal support for a candidate nor a belief as to the ultimate nominee. We have a very long way to go before that issue is decided and, of course, the nominee might not even have been on the stage.
The ratings neither reflect my personal support for a candidate nor a belief as to the ultimate nominee. We have a very long way to go before that issue is decided and, of course, the nominee might not even have been on the stage.
32 comments:
What you won't hear addressed in the debates for both parties are the issues which really affect ordinary people's daily lives, e.g. the cost of living and educating the children, etc.. To do that would put major donors feet to the fire. What the big money donors mostly buy is control of the political discussion agenda.
Hence the deathly silence over Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase and the Flowers Group buying Sallie Mae. When that happens there'll be no limit to college tuitions. Children will purchase education like subprime mortgage home purchasers who worry only about carrying costs rather than the actual sale price.
Urgh.
Thank you Dr Klein!!
California is WEST of Iowa in case you need a lil help finding your way home.
anonymous--Duty and love of country calls so I'll departing my hillcrest home and magicaL garden in balmy Oakland to return to Iowa next week to campaign for the caucuses.
What is the GOP smoking is my reaction to what's going in the campaign thus far. We've turned into party of war and reckless spending Democrats.
Karen Hanretty, deputy communications director for the Fred Thompson presidential campaign, wrote on The Hill's Political Pundit that "it's time to put America first and make Iowa go last."
This move, she said would bring about an end to expensive ethanol subsidies and allow those monies to be used elsewhere, indicating infrastructure as her preference.
Not that anything comming out of Fred's DOA campaign will mean much. Freds, lazy, clueless and worthless. Hes the Wesley Clark of 2008 .... Next!
Mark Klein, you will never be President of the United States... sorry bud, just wanted to let you know.
Its OK though Doc, youre not exactly in an elite club or anything .... A lot of people will never be president, even current candidates like Sam Brownback, Tom Tancredo, John Cox, Dennis Kucinich and John McCain
...or Rudy, Fred, Mitt, Duncan and oh, you could probably put Ron Paul in there as well. It's actually a not so elite club as said above.
Who says I can't be POTUS? I might be the frontrunner for the GOP nomination today had the party accepted my $15,000 check for a ballot line at Ames. With 60-75 days to campaign without breaking a sweat could have easily beaten Romney's pathetic 4700 votes and Huckabee's really pitiful 2800.
These two totally spontaneous blog entries from people I don't know popped up today in the New York Times Caucus blog. Suggests to me I've got a potential following among Democrats who might crossover as they did for Reagan.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/06/2008-and-then-there-were-nine/#comment-230889
How did the media conclude that Fred Thompson is worthy of any more of their attention and free publicity than, say, Dr. Mark Klein?
— Posted by Steve Bolger
Steve Bolger, I think after some reflection you’d agree that Dr. Mark Klein is far more interesting, complicated, sincere, and many other laudatory adjectives, than Fred ‘Frankenberry’ Thompson.
Fred waited too long, he could have entered three months ago to great fanfare, now he’s got an uphill fight. Snubbing the entire GOP by skipping every debate so far, and specifically cutting out on this one, makes it apparent that he’s avoiding questions because he’s got not much to say.
The really pathetic thing is that some polls show him as the second most popular GOP candidate, even though he has no big ideas, known platform, recent political experience, or anything much. I assume this is out of total desperation, since the rest of the field is so deficient and since Bush has insured that the GOP will lose ‘08 worse than any election so far.
— Posted by Dan Stackhouse
Absent dirty tricks against me in caucuses, I think I'll win outright or do very well.
If I was seen walking on water, my critics in the GOP would say it's evidence I can't swim!
Ted-What about putting me back on your poll? Give you 10/1 on a $100 I'd be in the top 3 within 3 weeks of return to Iowa next Wednesday.
Ted,
I'd gladly pay you $100 Tuesday for spot on you poll today.
Did anyone see McQuisling on Hannity and Commie after the debate? He mentioned that he HAS NOT changed his position on immigration.
He STILL favors Amnesty...along with Rudy, Switchback and Huckabee.
New York Sun’s Politics Blog: Thompson's First Campaign Event: Unimpressive
By Ryan Sager
I just attended Fred Thompson's first campaign event in Des Moines, Iowa. The quick take: This is a whimper of a start.
I'm writing from the filing center that the Thompson campaign has set up in the Polk County Convention Complex, and the verdict from the grizzled and cynical Des Moines press corps is harsh: "Pathetic" was the word used by one vet. "Small" and "low energy" were the words used to describe the crowd.
It's hard to disagree with that general take. The campaign — as campaigns do — deliberately chose a small room to amplify the size of the crowd. But even the small room was a good deal less than full. A couple volunteers (I assume) tried to start up a chant of "Go, Fred, Go!" during the speech. It ended pretty quickly. One woman fainted, but it probably wasn't from heat (the room was nicely air conditioned) and it definitely wasn't excitement.
That's a pretty inflated point scale...aren't you old enough that you used a "true" 1-30 scale when you lost in the quarterfinals of the state debate tournament and tossed all of your "cards" in the river near the Memorial Union in Iowa City?
I like your weblog... Thank you for providing balanced commentary, without mockingly attacking Republican presidential candidates Ron Paul and John Cox, as so many other bloggers (including "conservative" ones) have been doing. I have only read, I think, two of your entries, but I am impressed by your site. Are you from Iowa, or from our state... or from somewhere else?
My name is John and I work on the Congresspedia.org wiki - a non-partisan wiki reporting project on Congress. I saw that you have been covering Iowa politics and stories on members of Congress from Iowa (as well as national news) and we'd like to put you on our blogroll for that state. Can you email me at SunlightUser2 [at] Sunlightfoundation.com?
Thanks,
John
Wow Dr. Kline … What color is the sky on your planet? You never “broke a sweat” campaigning because no one (voters or otherwise) cared that you were even running. You stumble around the state spouting off to whoever will listen to you and you generally get into fights with the entire group you were trying to win over … I remember when they booed you in Grundy County because you tried to shush the local party chairman for claiming the state GOP used “Nazi tactics” to keep you out of the straw poll. You sent letters to local parties all around the state asking them to demand the State party let you into the even … None of them cared enough to take action …. That doesn’t exactly speak volumes about your ability to accomplish anything more than stroking your own ego.
To call Romney and Huckabee’s finish “pitiful” is pure insanity on your part … You haven’t the slightest idea of how difficult it is to mobilize people for a straw poll. Neither really did John Cox …. He had to find out the hard way. But even Cox has more support than you. At least Cox was allowed into the event. Cox has his photo on the State GOP website as a serious candidate. Cox was even able to convince 2 beloved former Governors to openly petition ABC to let him into a nationally televised debate. John’s a good man, and he’s a hell of a lot more creditable than you are … However, even he was only able to get 41 votes. For you, I’m guessing the total would have been SIGNIFICANLY lower. My guess … 15 or 16 votes.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
That last comment was hilarious and exactly on.
Give it up Klein. Focus on your day job.
Dr. Klein has a better chance of winning the nomintion than Iowa State beating UNI this weekend.
Oh yeah....
Anon 8:21 September 6
No, I'm not that person.
I'm the person who failed to break his senior year based not one tie breaker, not on two tie breakers but on three tie brakers after receiving a 15, the lowest points of my career, from my HS coaches supposed best friend. While she will undoubtedly roast in the 7th circle of hell for that some day, rest assured, I got even with her a hundred times over in the next few years. Not that I'm still pissed about it 30 years later or anything.
Nor am I the person who threw his cards in the Iowa River outside the IMU. I am the person who threw the O Pups cards in the river outside IMU.
Ted,
Glad to see you're back and don't take such a long vacation again. I depend on your expert analysis since I can't watch the debates here in Uganda. I hope to get my Armed Forces Network receiver or at least my slingbox going sometime in the near future so I can watch events in real time. CNN-I and BBC suck so bad I find myself watching freekin Al Jazeera International as their stories have more balance! Never thought I'd admit Al Jazeera beats American Media but after 5 weeks of blah blah blah "we hate GWB" on CCN-I I had to more on to something else.
AFN has FOX news so that will be nice but until I get my AFN set up I NEED you to keep us all posted.
I miss the anon who posted snippets of interesting articles in the comments here on Sporer. That feisty anon generated more debate in these comment sections that interested me than anyone else.
Off topic and probably not of interest to many... Anyways, I had a great encounter with a truly hot R female the other day. Something strange about that. I find the opposites attract thing incredibly strong with certain R's. I think Carville & Matalin are onto something.
Michelle Malkin is smoking hot!
To my critics--What planet are you living on? Don't think for nanosecond I'd be trying for the White House were it not my belief our governing elites from both major parties when they take a break from robbing us blind, govern like drunken frat boys.
Gee whiz, how insightful you've observed I'm totally pissed off to the extent I've antagonized lots of folks. Was successful raising four children, practicing medicine and psychiatry, and in business by speaking my mind. Total idiocy what passes for national political leadership disses common sense and fiscal restraint to indulge the electorate's fantasy life. Had Lincoln and FDR governed that way America would not have survived.
Re the Ames straw poll I indeed know what it takes to win. Would have taken only slightly greater effort than when I reached 52% on Ted's straw poll 3-4 days after getting on.
Wouldn't have offered my $15,000 fee had I not thought I'd win or do very well. Of course, the party took Cox's dough. He had no chance so there was nothing at risk for party's "annointed" hopefuls.
Romney's and Huckabee's vote totals were pathetic given the size of what remains of Republican support in Iowa, the vast sums they spent and the national and international media hype and coverage it got.
I am the right person with the winning message. Americans crave an outsider committed to restoring the prosperity and stability most Americans enjoyed during the Eisenhower Era. To achieve that we need a presidential candidate like me not owned and operated by the Big Financial Dogs and the Military-Industrial Complex.
I'd easily beat Hillary Clinton. People neither like or trust her. Unfortunately most Americans will dislike or distrust the GOP's "approved" hopefuls more.
Will be back in Des Moines with my team later this coming week to campaign as hard we can to win the caucuses.
Ted, what about taking me up on my bet?
Don't have a day job to return to. If I lose, I'd just return to my very pleasant retirement perch in the balmy Oakland hills with wonderful memories of the experience of lifetime trying to be Alpha Male of the World.
What a looney piece of work Dr. Klein must be to glow about a one-time poll that had much more to do with father's rights than him.
The real question is why Dr. Klein never got the father's rights guys in Iowa on his train since they obviously ditched him once they figured out he's crazy. Where are his legions of fans other than his own mind? Somebody once told me that "crazy people don't know they're crazy" and as such it is best to avoid them.
Oh yeah, Ted gave me that advice and I still see it is as true as ever. Ted, please ignore this crazy person with delusions of greatness as it is not worth your time to respond. I only do so because I get tired of his silly accusations.
?????? Stop the insanity Ted! How you can do that but it would be nice all the same.
Ted, if I'm a "crazy person with delusions" as the above gentleman asserts, the way to silence me is ensuring me a fair and open chance to compete in the caucuses, and putting me back on your straw poll.
Cookie function wrote "Put up or shut Klein..."
That's all I've been asking to do all along.
"...this may be the guy who can save our party."
That's I think.
Amazing, truly amazing!
Was amazed too until I placed my problems dealing with the party in the context of experiences with very sick patients in complete denial! In psychiatric practice specialized in treating the most disturbed who were often uncooperative, in denial, quite self destructive and inclined to blame others for all their troubles.
We need a National Shrink sitting in the Oval Office.
No longer amazed, Ken, I'm just really p.o.'ed.
No one wants to silence you Dr. Kline ... In fact, we find your rants mos humerous. If you pull in more than 1% in the Caucus I'll be stuned.
Post a Comment