Wednesday, June 25, 2008

Stop the presses: even the NYT sounds optimism about Iraq

Thomas Friedman is often offered as the gold star in international journalism. God knows his employer, the New York Times, is absurdly liberal and pathologically anti-W.

So when the Friedman writes and the Times publishes a
serious, thoughtful and optimistic appraisals of Iraq, and do so at a time when coverage of Iraq has otherwise largely disappeared because American victory is becoming increasingly obvious and valuable, it means that very good things have happened.


RF said...

As I have said many times before, even with "victory" in Iraq, what have we really gained in the WOT? How have we moved forward from 9/12/01 with that victory? Whatever the achievements of the war, have they been worth the price we have paid in lives, in military resources, monetarily, and strategically? Using any kind of cost-benefit analysis, it is hard to see the value in this debacle.

I know it's hard to swallow when your guy screws up this bad. W gambled on this war and he lost. Big time.

Anonymous said...

well. we haven't gotten anymore planes ramed through buildings.

seems like an okay benefit to me. but whatever.

Anonymous said...

Haven't seen any baraks bombed since then. That seems kind of ok to me.

Haven't seen any submarines like the US Cole getting bombed. That seems kind of ok to me.

We haven't had anyone enter and bomb our subways like they did in London. That seems kind of ok to me too.

Libs don't really care about that though.

NIMBY lives!

Anonymous said...

Right on, 8:52.

RF - you are viewing this through a paradigm of the present, rather than a worldview of history. Fact is, for all the moaning from the left during the past five years, in reality, this will be miniscule in the whole scheme, because victory will be secured, and ultimately that's all that matters.

And victory IS key, because it shows the terrorists that we mean business and can beat them on their turf, while they fail to topple our resolve on our own land.

Remember, the 9/11 Commission Report stated that a big motivating factor for Obama was when we were defeated in Bosnia, etc.

We have fractured their network, and ultimately that's worth it.

Additionally, it wasn't a "gamble." It was intelligence that was flawed. It happens, and ultimately, this war will in fact make us safer.

My two cents.

Anonymous said...

Al Quada is nearly kaput - that seems ok to me.

Saddam and his rapist sons and their rape rooms aren't in business anymore.

The mass graves due to mass killings by Saddam aren't getting created anymore.

There haven't been any gassing of Kurds lately.

Why is that the party who thinks we should go to war in Darfur have no sympathy or concern for the people of Iraq or Afghanistan and all the human rights abuses suffered there by them?

Those deaths and rapes were all ok with libs. Wasn't worth it, I guess.

Anonymous said...

Jaques Chirac - Former PM of France and BIGGEST anti war advocate of all isn't stealing money anymore from the Oil for Food program that we gave our tax dollars to.

Turns out his anti-war stance was attributable to his desire for money.

RF said...

And where is the proof that all this is due to the Iraq war? We could not have prevented attacks in any other way? Attacking a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and did not have any significant Al Qaeda presence was the most effective way to wage the WOT?

Whatever helps you folks sleep at night. Just close your eyes and create your own comfy reality. It’s all good.

Anonymous said...

Saddam isn't paying suicide bombers $25,000 each to blow themselves up in Israel anymore.

But, we are talking about Israel so we know Libs agree with Hamas and Jimmy Carter who both support Obama that Israel ought not to exist, so libs are kind a sad that's not happening anymore.

Conservatives, who support Israels right to exist, think it's good that Saddam isn't paying suicide bombers anymore.

Most Lib philosophy is based in the concept of NIMBY. Libs have become complete Isolationists and protectionists.

Except for Darfur of course.

Anonymous said...

The soccer stadium in Afghanistan isn't being used to stone women to death for wearing makeup anymore. They actually use it for soccer now since soccer is no longer outlawed.

Widows aren't lining the streets begging for food and dying on the sidewalks from stoning and starvation in Taliban controlled Afghanistan anymore.

The Taliban outlawed widows from earning money or otherwise trying to get food. Without husbands, their fate is to starve to death - Sharia Law? Can't wait!

Anonymous said...

rf - you are hopeless. WHat else would it have been attributed to.


Anonymous said...

1993 world trade center - bill clinton did nothing.

US Cole bombing - bill clinton did nothing.

200 marines killed in a baracks in Africa - bill clinton did nothing.

So, just how do you propose that these attacks could have been dealt with in another way? You showed us what democrats do - NOTHING!

W did something. W made us safe.

Bill Clinton made us unsafe.

Barack will make us MORE unsafe.

and speaking of doing nothing - did you notice that Bill Clinton also did NOTHING with respect to energy while president? NOTHING!

Did you see how much W did for energy in 2005? LOTS. Bill Clinton never had an energy policy.

How do Libs sleep at night?

The Real Sporer said...

rf, let me guess. we could have engaged in multi-lateral diplomacy?

we could have imposed more sanctions, that russia, china, chirac's france and that other douche bag in germany could have violated?

we could have passed UN resolutions demanding compliance with previous UN resolutions, that saddam, with the help of the russians, the chinese, the french and the germans would have violated or circumvented?

we could have shipped more food aid that saddam would have converted, sold to the chinese, the russians, the french and teh germans for hard currency that he would have kept in syrian banks for his personal use?

we could have allowed more time for UN weapon's inspectors-because 12 years just wasn't enough for saddam to disclose what happened to the WMD stockpiles that were confirmed to exist in 91 and 93 but for which no subsequent accounting was ever made? BTW, perhaps the liberals could provide some evidence as to where those stockpiles are now or when/how/who destroyed them, 'cause you all haven't done that either.

The Real Sporer said...

it sounds like a lot of facts are described above.

what are your facts?

Anonymous said...

Fact: Friedman has always been optimistic about Iraq. He advocated attacking them.

Right now I am listening to a radio interview of one of the few reporters (also from the NYT) still stationed in Iraq. His story is not so optimistic. ---Spotlight

Anonymous said...

wow. big shocker that another reporter from the nyt is not optimistic on iraq. that was lame spotlight.

Anonymous said...

Marlys Popma made the news today. According to an AP story today, there is trouble in SoCoville. It's a story from Ohio, but it could have been from Iowa.

Does Marlys know that Stewman Iverson at the direction of former Iowa Romney senior staffers who now work for McCain in Iowa are inexplicably going to war with Steve Scheffler - the Social conservative leader in Iowa - ya know, the guy that turns out voters to vote for McCain?

Is there some reasonable purpose for this war that somehow benefits McCain?

I don't think so. I think Stews war against Steve would make McCain really mad.

Marlys - why is your staff trying to destroy the voters they need for McCain to win?;_ylt=AnL7SCdyQ7u3gmz0DXH4dGVh24cA

By PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writer
Thu Jun 26, 4:30 AM ET

If Christian conservatives stay on the sidelines during the fall campaign, presidential hopeful John McCain probably stays in the Senate.

Christian conservatives provided much of the on-the-ground, door-to-door activity for President Bush's 2004 re-election in Ohio and in other swing states.

Without them, the less-organized and lower-profile McCain campaign is likely to struggle to replicate Bush's success.

And so far, there's been scant sign that the Republican nominee-in-waiting is making inroads among these fervent believers.

"I don't know that McCain's campaign realizes they cannot win without evangelicals," said David Domke, a professor of communication at the University of Washington who studies religion and politics.

"What you see with McCain is just a real struggle to find his footing with evangelicals."

Anonymous said...

friedman thinks the world is flat too.

Anonymous said...

Rf would advocate that bush have a one on one with Obama er I mean Osama and then 9-11 wouldn't have happened.

Osama is just misunderstood. It's because of poverty that he did this.

Oh yea - forgot he's wealthy beyond belief because Democrats won't let us DRILL HERE DRILL NOW!

Democrats, with their obstruction, are funding Osama.

They only care that Military people die - not those civilians at the world trade center. twice!

Anonymous said...

Marlys - this sounds rather condescening. Those damn dumb evengelicals. If those christians weren't so damn dumb, they'd know they should vote for McCain. Geez, Marlys. Aren't you on of those damn dumb freakin christians? What on earth is your paid staff doing here in Iowa?

"Marlys Popma, McCain's director of evangelical outreach, (WHY THE WAR WITH THE IOWA CHRISTIAN ALLIANCE PRESIDENT MARLYS?) was one of two aides who met with the forum and reminded them of McCain's record supporting school choice while opposing abortion rights and Internet pornography.

She said the campaign understands the interest in the vice presidential nominee, but she noted that McCain "is the one who is going to be nominating judges.

He's going to be the one who is
signing or not signing bills."

"John McCain is their guy," Popma said. "John McCain's record is what will bring individuals to him. I think there are some people out there who do not know John McCain's record."

McCain's senior aides try to downplay the fissure with this part of the GOP's base."

Anonymous said...

"Meanwhile, Obama's campaign is aggressively reaching out to evangelicals.

The Illinois senator dispatched former 9/11 Commission member Tim Roemer to meet with fellow Roman Catholics.

He sent Brian McLaren, one of the country's most influential pastors, to meet with fellow evangelicals.

And aides have conducted more than 200 "American Values Forums," soon to be followed up with house parties and town hall-style meetings aimed at young Catholics and young evangelicals."

Doesn't Stewman remind you of Newman on Seinfeld?

Anonymous said...

It was ISSUES which turned out the vote in 2004. Now, we have no ISSUES - just bullying from former Romney paid staffers in Iowa. McCain has no chance in Iowa. Thanks G.

Isn't the reason Stewman lost his senate seat because he wouldn't move the gay marriage amendment among a whole host of issues his own party had with him??

Why is he still employed by RPI?

"High-emotion ballot initiatives banning gay marriage in 11 states helped drive conservatives to the polls in 2004.

Ohio's ban helped give Bush a win by energizing the party's base in a state that every successful Republican presidential candidate has won.

But only two states proposed such bans this year: Florida, a swing state, and California, which has been an easy win for Democrats in recent years."

Anonymous said...

More bad news created by democrats obstruction on energy and on their massive tax grab in Iowa under the Democrat legislature.

Gas prices alone is going to cause a HUGE recession. This will NOT be of W's making.

Of course, libs whole goal is to make us all so poor that we HAVE to become welfare recipients just to buy gas or pay for heat this winter. Recall heating prices will rise 25% this winter.

That hurts the middle class who are quickly becoming part of the poverty class.

"Small business owners are tightening their belts as rising oil prices and talk of recession have increased concerns about their financial situation.

According to the latest Wells Fargo/Gallup Small Business Index survey, more than one-third of small business owners said their personal financial situation is getting worse.

Half of the 600 small business owners surveyed said they have postponed a major purchase in the past three months and 44 percent said they've reduced the amount of money they've deposited into savings or checking accounts or certificates of deposit.

Thirty-one percent said they've reduced the amount they are contributing to a retirement account.

Many also are concerned about their financial situation in the future, with 75 percent saying they are concerned about paying for gasoline...

Anonymous said...

uh-oh! sounds like the wing nuts have their panties in a bunch again!!!!

"Iowa Romney senior staffers who now work for McCain in Iowa "

really? cause their 1.

hellooooo bitterness.


Anonymous said...

yeah, put the steave deace kool-aid down and step away 11:53

Anonymous said...

When your government has stuck broomsticks up the ass of Iraqis, held them in jail for a year without charges and then let them go again, it's hard to get too optimistic about anything.


RF said...

You can tell we touch a nerve any time we (not just D’s but many conservatives as well) bring up any of the inconvenient truths about the Iraq debacle. And Sporer, you have me rolling when you, after 7 years of the W administration, question our facts. That’s hilarious. Just ask Scott McClellan. Your credibility is absolutely zero when it comes to facts & Iraq.

But really, it’s pointless to debate someone who is in complete denial. I understand the pain reality causes.

East of Altoona said...

I hear Norm P caught Iverson in another lie about Sporer?

Its pretty obvious why the Senators dumped that guy back in 06.

East of Altoona said...

Norm R I meant

Norm P was busy fighting with Steve Roberts when Chairman Iverson was lying to Norm R.

Anonymous said...

So what was the lie? Don't make piss ass accusations without bringing the truth.

Anonymous said...

The ICA and Sheffler really feel so important. Apparently back east Sheffler and company are a blood sucking fleas on a dog. Sheffler doesn't walk, talk,look, or personally have the money of a nat
com man

Art A Layman said...


Facts? Where did you see facts posted here?

anonymous said:

1993 world trade center - bill clinton did nothing.

US Cole bombing - bill clinton did nothing.

200 marines killed in a baracks in Africa - bill clinton did nothing.

World Trade Center 1993 bombing; most perpetrators caught and prosecuted, in jail now.

USS Cole bombing; you guys would have squealing like stuck pigs, Iowans know about that, if Clinton had launched an immediate attack in response just prior to the elections. If he had done so after the elections, you guys would have been squealing again about Clinton tying Dumbya's hands by embroiling him in an international crisis, without a definitive conclusion that Al Qaeda was responsible for the bombing. That conclusion came on 1/27/2001 but Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld felt the Cole incident was "stale" and a response shouldn't be pursued. Dumbya continued on fat, dumb and happy.

200 Marines killed in a barracks in Africa? He needs to guess again. And that was Reagan not Clinton, and it was Lebanon not Africa.

The only thing factual about his post is that it supports your contention about the quality of our education system.

Another(?) anonymous says:

Remember, the 9/11 Commission Report stated that a big motivating factor for Obama was when we were defeated in Bosnia, etc.

We were not defeated in Bosnia! In fact we didn't even have a combat death in Bosnia.

You really ought to suggest to your groupies that they get their facts right before posting. Your arguments will still be vacuous but you won't appear as complete imbeciles.

Anonymous said...

We are winning in Iraq.
But it is because of our soldiers bravery, not because of Bush.

I served a tour in Iraq, and we where undermanned, underarmored and often overwhelmed.

Bush tried to fight this war on a budget and with the least amount of people involved. He did not commit totally to this effort and by not doing so, we lost many brave men.

If Ronald Regan was alive he would kick GW's ass. He would have never let these Americans die needlessly, he would have went balls out and took it to the enemy.

It really shows what you get when you elect a draft dodger as your president.

I might still vote Republican but plenty people wont, not because of McCain, but because of Bush